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Looks as though the 'days after' are almost as bad - alyburns' (aka sideburns & alyjude) Hiding Place
If you spoke faster than David Hewlett you’d travel back in time: Michael Shanks
alyburns
alyburns
Looks as though the 'days after' are almost as bad
as I know I feared. Thankfully, not for the President, but a few congressional seats are still undecided, thanks to not only very close voting, but also the number of states (can we say Arizona or Florida, for instance?) that still haven't finished counting, thanks to their own efforts to screw over half their voters in the name of stopping Obama's re-election voter fraud [sic]. But gosh darn it, the voters showed up anyway! They stood in line for hours, tried to read ballots that, in several states, would be considered 'novels',  and left their homes shelters in order to do their civic duty and take advantage of their most precious right: to vote.

The fact that once again states have screwed up this process has left some election results still up in the air, like Gabby Gifford's seat in the House (State? Arizona, duh) and finally folks actually admitting that the voting process is SCREWED.

For those who believe in small government - voting is a good reason for rethinking what small government actually means (and can accomplish) versus big government. And maybe this is the discussion Americans all across the country need to have? Maybe we need to first come to some kind of consensus on what both terms actually mean versus what we think they mean? And how would this have anything to do with voting? Simple: Voting is one area that should be UNIFIED. We should all vote in the SAME manner from state to state. And experts are required to help make this happen. There must be certain areas for Americans that, no matter what state they may move to, they can count on some things being the same. Like voting.

Some of us had no trouble voting - but there are millions who did - and millions who had their ballots stamped "Provisional" in their states. Which means their votes are still sitting somewhere, uncounted. Why? Because Provisional votes are the last on the list to be looked at, let alone to be counted. In some states that enacted this "Provisional" voting (blah-blah-blah, another bogus attempt to stop voter fraud - blah-blah-blah), those Americans won't ever find out if their vote even counted - or was counted at all. If I'd been labeled a "provisional" voter, I'd feel like shit today, two days after the election.

But this can be changed. There's a reason we're called "The United States of America" and it's because there are supposed to be things we're all united about - like VOTING.

Yeah, yeah, another soap box entry. Me bad.
26 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
andeincascade From: andeincascade Date: November 9th, 2012 05:25 am (UTC) (Link)
All this plus two words: bipartisan oversight. Of every last licking bit of the election process. No more shenanigans. And violators are charged federally and prosecuted hard.
caarianna From: caarianna Date: November 9th, 2012 07:09 am (UTC) (Link)
Elections Canada sends people all around the world to help set up open, fair, efficient voting practices and to ensure that voter rights are respected. I'm sure we'd be glad to send advisors to the US, too. Maybe they could help ensure that dead people don't get elected, as I understand happened in two places on Tuesday night. ::shakes head::

Just saw that disgruntled Republicans are saying they are 'going to move to Canada'. LOL, the reactions of my fellow Canadians are hilarious, pointing out that a) over 80% of us would have voted for Obama if given the chance, b) we have health care for all funded through taxes not insurance companies c) we have gay marriage nationally d) we have gun control e) we pay more than $5.00 a gallon for gas and f) we don't want them anyway because they REALLY wouldn't be happy here.
emerald_green37 From: emerald_green37 Date: November 10th, 2012 06:48 am (UTC) (Link)
No, they wouldn't be happy, but just think how much enjoyment you'd have watching their heads explode when they realized it.
(Deleted comment)
starwatcher307 From: starwatcher307 Date: November 9th, 2012 06:20 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I'm gonna agree

.
I work in the schools (NM), and many states have adopted "common core standards". In theory, students will all be learning the same basics. It's not all states, and implementation may vary, but some are trying to head in a similar direction to what you suggest. Maybe one of these days...
.
grey853 From: grey853 Date: November 9th, 2012 04:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
I agree with all you've said. I know part of it this year was the concerted effort by the Republicans to suppress the vote by any means they could. Idiots also ended up messing up the voting for more than just democrats and people of color.

The thing is, it's not like these elections aren't scheduled well ahead of time. It just seems like all the "fixes" are rushed and don't work. It'd be nice if there were someway to standardize these elections. Of course, that would cost a hell of a lot of money and states would no doubt protest.

jokan From: jokan Date: November 9th, 2012 07:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
In my county, we have mail-in ballots. We receive them more than 2 weeks before the election and can mail them in or drop them in an official election drop box (my choice) anytime until 8 PM on election day. It was wonderful to sit in my home and comfortably fill out my paper ballot and then go drop it off. NO LINES! PAPER BALLOTS! Accountability. Yay!!!!!
cluesby4 From: cluesby4 Date: November 9th, 2012 10:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
We have been discussing this on FB.

Off and on I have been referring to the following nonpartisan site.
http://blackboxvoting.org/

In our state we had several cases where people's identities were already used when they went to vote.

1. I want the process to change. I want it based on popular vote only. Yeah, I know that Obama would have probably still won, but sometimes it feels like all votes do not count. Just like I would be upset if my vote was considered 'provisional'.

2. I want paper ballots, which you turn in with your voter registration AND a picture id.

3. I want the televised election night programs to stop. I want all states and voters to feel as if their votes count. I hate exit polls, etc. They should wait until ALL votes are counted, no matter if one candidate is way ahead. ALL VOTES SHOULD COUNT!

4. All votes and voting procedures should be handle by American-based business.

5. I'm tired of people blaming Republicans in the area. This is not about Democrats or Republicans this is about Americans. PICTURE IDs have nothing to with turning away people from voting. It is protecting MY RIGHT to vote and not fearing some stealing it, as it has and will continue to happen.


Edited at 2012-11-09 10:07 pm (UTC)
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 10th, 2012 04:07 am (UTC) (Link)

I agree with a lot you wrote - Part One!

And that's what I call moving forward. *G* Unfortunately, there are areas where we didn't *G*.

In our state we had several cases where people's identities were already used when they went to vote.

That's not voter fraud it's voter impersonation which is different and equally rare. For VI (voter impersonation), here's what has to happen for it go UNDETECTED:

The impersonator would need to
(1) have the name of a registered voter they were certain would not show up at the polls without the election judges or one of the other voters knowing the person they are impersonating,
(2) go to that voter’s neighborhood precinct and lie about their identity without being discovered, and
(3) commit perjury in order to cast a ballot.

The reason this is so rare is simple: Why would anyone attempt to do this, risk a felony conviction when it's for 'one' vote and thus has little to no chance of changing an election?

In your state, obviously the few people who tried VI didn't succeed which is the usual result. The Justice Department reported on VI back in '08 after a 5-year study ('02-'07). Of the 300 million votes cast in that period, only 86 people were prosecuted for voter fraud (several were folks who were unaware they were ineligible.

Something that helps deter both voter fraud and VI is that everyone who votes develops a 'voter history' (this went unpublished by the Republicans in their effort to 'clean up the voting process') which is updated every election. If it appears that an individual voted in more than one precinct; used same-day registration but didn't live where they claimed; or if a county official has reason to believe that a voter is ineligible - it's detected and referred to the county attorney for investigation. Here's an excellent article by a bi-partisan group, The League of Women Voters on "Understand Elections".

1. I want the process to change. I want it based on popular vote only. Yeah, I know that Obama would have probably still won, but sometimes it feels like all votes do not count. Just like I would be upset if my vote was considered 'provisional'.

Same here. For one thing, Al Gore would have won against Bush *G*. Of course, in reality, the popular vote has chosen 40 presidents out of 44. 4 Presidents won without the popular vote (PV):
1. John Quincy Adams vs Andrew Jackson (PV)
2. Rutherford Hayes vs Samuel Tilden (PV)
3. Benjamin Harrison vs incumbent Grover Cleveland (PV)
4. George W. Bush vs Al Gore (PV) (remember voter fraud was claimed when thousands of boxes of ballots went 'missing' and then the whole 'chad' thing? And the state in question was, as it is today, Florida)

2. I want paper ballots, which you turn in with your voter registration AND a picture id

I tend to go with paper too - machines are too easily manipulated, as are computer generated voting. OTOH paper ballots can be lost, tossed, misplaced. That's why I believe we need a group of experts to work on voting issues, to stabilize them and unify them. Unfortunately, I don't *necessarily* agree with the ID requirement unless the State's are willing to make exceptions or provide a special voter ID for free. Why? Because obtaining an ID has proven a huge burden for the frail elderly, people with disabilities, those with low incomes, and young adults. It's not just the cost, but transportation and the logistics of obtaining the ID that poses major problems, not to mention what to do with absentee voting? The Brennan Center for Justice surveyed this issue & found that, "... 11% of U.S. citizens lack a valid photo ID. 18% of people over 65 do not have a current government-issued ID." That's 29% of all eligible voters! So yes, ID, but only if the states are willing to do one of the above. And again, ID's only help prevent VI, not voter fraud.

Since this is too big a response, Part Two is the next comment. *BG*



Edited at 2012-11-10 04:21 am (UTC)
cluesby4 From: cluesby4 Date: November 10th, 2012 05:03 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: I agree with a lot you wrote - Part One!

Whether VI or not, it has and is happening for whatever reason. I strongly support picture ideas. Look you have to have it for passports, to board planes.

And yes I knew about the 4 presidents that won contrary to popular vote. But I do still support total popular vote.

I am becoming a wary viewer as you will see in the third reply. I just think they should report the winner period. And I'm sure everyone would agree they were tired of all the ads, analyzing, and commentaries.
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 12th, 2012 12:27 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: I agree with a lot you wrote - Part One!

On Photo ID's: Can we agree that if required and an individual needs it ONLY to vote (because they have no other photo ID), then it should be easy to obtain and cost nothing to the voter? Actually, unless we want to really go backward, they'd have to be free or they're a form of a Poll Tax, which is illegal. *G* BTW: Photo ID's are as easy to 'steal' and fake as anything else. *shrug*

On popular vote vs. electoral? We agree. I think the electoral college came about because it was believed Americans weren't smart enough to elect someone and they needed a 'safety' net - but considering the shenanigans that go on with electoral votes and the differences between states on how those voters are allowed to vote, yeah, popular vote is the way to go (and I've not read too many experts who disagree, but I'm willing to hear them and their reasons).

The nice thing about reporting elections is you can turn them off, Susan. So it's a win-win. For those of us who love Election night and the reporting, it's there, and for those who don't, we both know there's tons of alternative programming aimed specifically at those who don't like election night reporting.

Probably one thing we're both really talking about are the ads and for me, this comes under the heading of Campaign Reform (and I bet we're both very close to being in agreement on what to reform?) and I'm all for it.
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 10th, 2012 04:08 am (UTC) (Link)

Part Two of Three!

3. I want the televised election night programs to stop.

I don't get this one at all. The majority of Americans don't start watching election coverage until they get home and after they've voted - so it hardly matters, does it? Hearing exit polls on election night doesn't affect how people feel regarding their vote, no matter what the polls show. And if their candidate is losing, they'll find out the next day anyway, so how will that make them feel better about their vote? There is always a winner and a loser - always those who will be celebrating - while others aren't. We should stop the celebrators?

I want all states and voters to feel as if their votes count. I hate exit polls, etc. They should wait until ALL votes are counted, no matter if one candidate is way ahead. ALL VOTES SHOULD COUNT!

All votes do count, but at one point in an election evening, when races are called, what can you do? Are you basically saying we should all live in a hole ntil the next day? It's not as if exit polls affect voting or change *how* people vote. Polls and calling the winners is a very intricate process based on *math*, not feelings or desires.

4. All votes and voting procedures should be handle by American-based business.

Here's where big government versus small may rear their ugly heads? NO business should run any government process, procedure or department because they're based on PROFIT. Now, if you meant a "non-profit, non-partisan" council? Then we're on the same track. There are several suggestions on how to solidify/unify voting and they've been around for a long time: like early voting permitted in every state; making voting day a holiday so no one loses income in order to cast their vote; voting hours the same in every state; two different ballots (one for state issues and one for Federal); no restrictions on registering (this was an area that, yes, Republicans tried to change - remember Florida's governor, Rick Scott, threatening the League of Women Voters?)

One of the things that turned me off several candidates was the fact that they wanted so many federal departments to be turned over to the all-hallowed "private sector". Do we really want vital areas to be based on the highest bidder? On companies that answer to *shareholders* and NOT "We, The People"? Or companies that contributed the most to a political campaign; and on companies who have only one goal: to increase their bottom line? Isn't that what's wrong with our health care & hospitals; thanks to putting profit before patients? No, I can't get behind that kind of business if that's what you meant but I expect you meant a non-profit/non-partisan council?

I'm tired of people blaming Republicans in the area.

But the blame is deserved. The majority of states that tried to enact voter restriction laws were Republican-controlled states as of 2010 elections. These are facts, not something an evil democrat made up somewhere (and btw: Some democrat-controlled states tried the same shit and I called them out too!). Heck, just since the beginning of 2011, 25 laws and 2 executive actions were passed in 19 states alone! Even in states where the Houses were split, Republican governors took voter registration laws into their own hands and, again, this is all fact, not some Democrat's version of what happened. It's also a fact that Democrats and their demographics within the states were the primary targets of the new laws. Am I saying the Democrats might not try the same thing when it's their turn (like 2016)? Nope. But if they do, I'll be the first one to scream, "Foul!" because as you said, it's not about Party affiliation, it's about all our rights - but by the same token, when our party screws up, we have to admit it, make it right, and make it known that we won't put up with it, right? How else do we keep our Parties honest?

Part Three coming up!

Edited at 2012-11-10 04:23 am (UTC)
cluesby4 From: cluesby4 Date: November 10th, 2012 04:54 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Part Two of Three!

LOL....I'm receiving your comments in my email backwards - not sure if I am going to make sense. I'm going to have to stop...go back and read from the beginning. ;-)
cluesby4 From: cluesby4 Date: November 10th, 2012 05:34 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Part Two of Three!

First, clarification. I was referring to the use of the tabulation software, by the Spanish base company, SCYTL. It is being used in I think 12 states, with projection of more in the next elections. Now some right wingers are using this as an Obama takeover plan so you will find it everywhere on the internet. I will not stoop to this level. I heard about this 6 months ago from a political scientist in an interview.

But it was hired by the government, and it will be expanded in use in the future. And it is being used in other countries.

And I will agree people should be aware that the equipment used for most polls are own by businesses not the government. And those businesses are connected to people who have run for offices - democrat, republican, even people who backed Obama and yes, a company of Romney's.

These are two of the main reasons I want paper ballots.

And again I will back the so-call restrictions. So no I am not blaming Republicans...even you in your response included democrat controlled states. We need picture ids. We need to be careful. Let me give you a personal example of why I feel so strongly about this. And it does not have to do with fraud at all. In the state of South Carolina there are at least four Susan Yorks. In my adult life I have been contacted by bill collectors, a business (video store) that was looking for its manger ;-), teaching credentials screwed, banks and doctors who have called for information. AND I could have sued Rite Aid because I was given the wrong medication. But at least I slept for a full day...knocked me out cold. ;-) And this is due to screwed up identification. I value my id, my vote. I want picture id.

alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 13th, 2012 02:30 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Part Two of Three!

First, clarification. I was referring to the use of the tabulation software, by the Spanish base company, SCYTL. It is being used in I think 12 states, with projection of more in the next elections. Now some right wingers are using this as an Obama takeover plan so you will find it everywhere on the internet. I will not stoop to this level. I heard about this 6 months ago from a political scientist in an interview.

You still need to clarify. *G* ME DUMB. :( Are you saying that you agree that privately owned businesses should NOT have anything to do with the voting process, ie; tabulation equipment? Or that it already has? I too am aware of the attempt by the right to create scare tactics back in May when Fox News unleashed their less than factual 'news' regarding SCYTL (and the falsehood that the CEO contributed to Obama's campaign). Another site (one you think of as non-partisan), Black Box Voting, also added some fuel to this untruthful fire. Fortunately, besides all the non-conservative networks debunking it, so did conservative, Michelle Malkin, who devoted an entire column to the falsehoods. And finally, it was debunked at our favorite debunking-of-urban-legends site, Snopes, in this article.

BTW: SCYTL was only used in a few states for the 2012 election and then only for overseas absentee voting.

And I think we've already agreed about ID's, right? *G*

cluesby4 From: cluesby4 Date: November 13th, 2012 04:23 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Part Two of Three!

I had not heard about the rumor about SCYTL contributing to the Obama campaign. And as I pointed out there were a few states this year. It WILL be used in more states in the future. Black Box Voting IS nonpartisan. It was through this site I found out about business including one connected to Romney.

I'll tried to respond to the other comments tomorrow. It's been a long day.

Off to sign the sucession petition for South Carolina. ;-)
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 12th, 2012 12:28 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Part Two of Three!

LOL! No problem. Figures, doesn't it? They come in order on the page, but not to our email boxes! LOL!
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 10th, 2012 04:09 am (UTC) (Link)

And finally, Part THREE! WHEW!



This is not about Democrats or Republicans this is about Americans. PICTURE IDs have nothing to with turning away people from voting. It is protecting MY RIGHT to vote and not fearing some stealing it, as it has and will continue to happen.

As stated before, your vote can't be stolen and the number of times where it's succeeded for a short period of time is so small as to be non-existent. And it *is* a Party issue because only a political party has something to gain from voter *fraud*. We don't have the luxury anymore of "Our Party, right or wrong", do we? Too much is at stake, right? This time, it was the GOP, maybe next time, it'll be the Democrats.

Actually, what happened with voter restrictions this year provides a good example of what happens when states are left to their own devices and thus a prime example of why the Federal government has to step in. Gosh, how many states would ignore The Civil Rights Act or Title IX or the American Disabilities Act if there were no "big government" to ensure these were lived up to? There are just some basic rights that can't be left to the states or they'd never happen. Should *any* government, big or small, be allowed to 'define' something like, "A family"? Or who should be allowed to marry? Or what contraceptives a woman can use? Or who should be allowed to vote? If we left it to the states, how many would dump the The Voting Rights Act enacted in 1965 - not 1865 - but 1965?

Voting is our right, we both agree, and a grave responsibility, but I think the responsibility part gets lost? I know I force myself to research candidates (how they've really voted in the past, if applicable, what their experience really is and in what area/s. Sometimes this is easy - sometimes it takes real digging. Romney is a good example - as was Obama. For example, with Romney, I had no trouble with his Olympic claims - I knew they were false because of my attachment to sports and the games (believe it or not, I was a competitive swimmer and, later, involved in both the '84 Olympic qualifying events and the games themselves) so via friends and coaches, I learned the truth: that he was a lobbyist for the Salt Lake City Organizing committee through the end of 2000; that he didn't save the games, the federal government did at his behest. The Federal government bailed him out with over a billion dollars, much of which went elsewhere. The scandals at the time were infamous and reported widely in magazines like Sports Illustrated and several private Olympic journals. The Athletes weren't happy, nor were their coaches, especially with the construction of the Olympic Village and their 'dorms. These are facts, not partisan make-believe. Digging into his tenure as Governor was more difficult, but dig I did and I did the same for Obama back in '08, like researching his voting record.

Unfortunately, I think most Americans prefer to watch commercials to choose, or their favorite news/pundits, or worse yet, vote a straight party line. Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen for this country is for the majority of Americans to change their party designation to "Independent" - thus ending "My Party, right or wrong". Maybe then real debates could happen? Maybe Liberals, Moderates and Conservatives would find more common ground if Party allegiance wasn't in the way? I mean, I can't declare myself a Democrat because I don't agree with their entire platform. There is NO party that could meet all my needs, therefore I vote for the individuals and their *history*. But again, that takes time and research. Is America up for that? I don't know, but we could sure start with voting changes, right? On that, we agree. *BG*
cluesby4 From: cluesby4 Date: November 10th, 2012 04:52 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: And finally, Part THREE! WHEW!

Aly, the minute you said the Federal Government should step in my mind shut down. I for one am totally against Federal influence.

I strongly feel each state in most ways should determine how they handle such issues as the voting process. South Carolina should and - I hope in the future will- require picture id.

What is your take on tracking chips on students' id cards?

As to the meek society, I myself am using self hypnosis and studying subliminal messaging. Sadly this is something that is being used negatively in our society. I believe a prime example is in CA for advertising against the bill to label GMO products. BTW did the bill pass? I meant to check.

As I said earlier in another thread - political parties are changing. Look there are more female Republican governors, I believe six to the total of 9. This is not the party some people want to paint it of submissive females with dominant males. The face of both parties are changing as they have in the past.
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 11th, 2012 07:39 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: And finally, Part THREE! WHEW!

this is another multi-part post, Susan! LOL! This is Part one of two!

There is never a chance for a good debate if we shut down due to the use of any words or wording, Susan. Don't we owe it to each other to read everything, digest it, and either accept it or give our reasons for rebuttal so the 'debate' can go forward?

For instance, why did Federal influence cause you to 'shut down'? How has it hurt you and is there any incident where you think it helped? And what do you consider 'federal influence' to be because without knowing that, I'm not sure how to proceed?

I know in my case, if not for 'federal influence', I wouldn't be here; my father would never have completed college upon his return from WWII, or received the GI loan to buy the house I grew up in. Nor would he have had one extra year of life - and a relatively good year - without the Veterans Hospital and treating him for free. I know that without that 'influence', there would be no Yosemite National Park or Yellowstone, etc. No Civil Rights Act, and, in all probability, if not for the 19th Amendment, women might still not have the right to vote. Is federal influence required in all areas of our lives? Of course not, but it's there for a reason and I would truly like to know why you seem against it or rather, its influence? You said you want the states to deal with voting issues on their own - but isn't that the problem now? They already are doing it their own way and it's not working. Just saying. *winces*

What is your take on tracking chips on students' id cards?

Are you talking about what school districts in Texas are doing? And a few in California? And if so, how does this subject equate to federal influence? If anything, it shows that small government (meaning states allowed to do anything they want) can be far more intrusive than 'big government'. I know a few years ago, a few pre-schools here in CA asked parental permission to put trackers in the children's clothing as a protective device against child predators and most parents agreed while others said no. In Texas, no one has been given the choice, not even the parents. Or are you talking of something else?

As to the meek society, I myself am using self hypnosis and studying subliminal messaging.

What meek society? Are you referring to my remarks about Americans needing to research candidates and not rely on commercials? (and the idea of subliminal messages in commercials has been around for...like forever, but most ads turn me off so if they exist - they're not working *G*).

Sadly this is something that is being used negatively in our society. I believe a prime example is in CA for advertising against the bill to label GMO products. BTW did the bill pass? I meant to check.

How was subliminal messaging used in the "No on 37" campaign? As far as I know, it was $47 million dollars spent against the "Yes on 37", dollars that bought lies, fake documents, the works. And all thanks to our usual suspect: Monsanto (among others who coughed up millions to defeat the proposition). *grrrrrr* Yet again a reason why Americans must research these things for themselves and not rely on ads - as I said before. I've even posted on propositions, I think back in '08, by saying that one could always tell who the 'bad guys' were in the proposition fights by the number of ads. The more ads for one side and the earlier they started to run them=more money, which usually meant 'big business protecting themselves', and thus, proof we should do the opposite. *G* Fortunately, several other propositions passed thanks to Californians not taking the word of the ads. Why they didn't do the same with 37 is beyond me other than maybe they didn't care if part of their food was GMO or not, but that's probably because they don't fully understand? But at least 37 got people thinking now. I suspect if it comes up again, it will pass.
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 11th, 2012 07:39 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: And finally, Part THREE! WHEW!

PART TWO! :)

political parties are changing. Look there are more female Republican governors, I believe six to the total of 9. This is not the party some people want to paint it of submissive females with dominant males. The face of both parties are changing as they have in the past.

I'm confused how the number of female governors prove the parties are changing? And I sure don't know where it's thought that Republican women are submissive - far from it. :) In fact, I'm pretty sure both parties have very assertive, strong, courageous women. As to the number of females, yep, there are six (as of the 2010 elections), and yep, 4 are Republicans. Is it worth it to point out a few things, though? Like how Susanna Martinez of NM was a Democrat up until '95 but her pro-life and anti-gay sentiments put her at odds with the party so she switched? Or that Mary Fallin loses some credibility too as she's the one whose husband divorced her after she had an affair with her bodyguard - which, by itself equals a shrug from me, but since she ran on the usual Republican "Family Values" and evangelical platform with Sara Palin's endorsement...yeah, 'nuff said. The other two of course, are Nikki Haley for SC & Jan Brewer of AZ (more on her later *G*). As for the Democrats, they have Bev Purdue (sp?) of NC who has been in office since 2009 (but is unfortunately retiring next year) & Christine Gregoire (never get her spelling right) of WA, in office since '05 and also retiring in '13.

Historically, Democrats have had 21 female governors (or equivalent as in District of Columbia *G*) and the Republicans have had 15, but that number is on paper only. It's really only 12 because: Vesta Roy of...New Hampshire? served only a week and was never sworn in; one woman (I can't remember her name) in Connecticut was Lt. Governor and took over when the Governor died but she was never elected and finally, Republicans can't claim Jan Brewer of AZ either because she never ran nor was she elected into the office. She was Secretary of State, thus took over when Janet Napolitano (D)left office to join Obama's administration. The numbers go back to 1925, btw.

What does say 'change' to me for the GOP are issues that may have always been there, but never at the forefront until now? The evangelical movement within the party is my biggest worry.

I would be interested to know what about the Republican Party you love and support? I remember asking my mother the same when it became obvious I was the only Liberal in the family *G* - probably my afro, peace necklace and Nehru jacket gave me away back in those days. *G* Anyway, mom could never truly give me an answer but as I grew up, it became obvious - painfully so. Progress, civil rights, gay rights - no, not her cuppa-cuppa.

Oddly enough, the one area we both agreed on? Pro-choice. BUT, neither of us believe/ed in abortion - only that women must be in control of their bodies and what they choose to do with them in that context. We both believed that education could and would drop the need for abortions and she even believed that education should be done in the schools as well as at home (and no, I don't mean she believed that abstinence was the only tool). I did learn that both my parents and their friends were deathly afraid the white race would disappear (although my father changed his mind later and became a radical in the neighborhood *G*). I remember one of their best friends explaining to me after I commented on how wonderful the Civil Rights movement was and how I admired MLK, that the movement had to be stopped because if it succeeded, it would open the door to interracial marriages and that would, "...kill our race, something that must never be permitted....". I couldn't believe this nice man was saying such things and I certainly didn't understand it - not then - and not now. Not something easy to digest, you know? Cultures are vital to us all, but whether our skin is white, brown, tan, purple, black, ebony, pink or rainbow, we retain all that we are, who we are, and all of our ancestors, wherever they came from originally, you know? Okay, ball in your court now, babe! :)
kenitra_canada From: kenitra_canada Date: November 11th, 2012 01:05 am (UTC) (Link)
Not to interrupt your intriguing dialogue. (and I really mean that because I admit I don't know any Americans personally.) But going back to a comment about the complexity of your ballots. In Canada we have the federal government and provinces instead of states. When we are voting for our Prime Minister (your President)our ballots only include federal representatives. If our Provinces want to enact new rules, laws etc through vote, it is held separately. Just wondering why your ballots include so much state stuff. Wouldn't it be simpler to vote just for President, Congress, Senate. Then each state hold their own voting process for all the other things at a different time? Just curious! K
alyburns From: alyburns Date: November 11th, 2012 02:37 am (UTC) (Link)

Oh, man, that is exactly

one of the ways I wish we'd change our voting process. Care to join me in sending this idea to Obama?
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